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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG TD TF 1500 - Price of our vehicles dropping?

Not that I am planning to sell my TD any time in the near future, but I note that the price of TD's on e-bay has started to drop. There are three reasonably nice (as nice as you can tell from e-bay) TD's for less than $15,000.

Now I know e-bay is not the final word on pricing of our cars, but it is an indicator.

I am not sure if this is a good thing (may generate more people to purchase and restore them) or a bad thing (discourage people from restoring them as they cannot restore them for what they sell for)

I recognize that most here don't put a value on their car and we keep them more because of a love for the car, but seems like a shame to see the price cars like Austin healey's are bringing compared to ours.
Bruce-C

Bruce, I sort of agree with you. Prices for our cars do flucuate some and are not rising like some the other British cars like the Healy's and Jag's. That is what happens as we age. The folks who dig our kind of cars are not getting any younger and this is happening not only to our T types but to old Model A's and such all the time.
Time was when a Cord 812 was in the upper 400-500 thousand and now sell for around 200 grand.
You can't give Model A's away these days and at one time they were kinda spendy. The 30's look of our cars appeals to me more than any other type of car but we are a dying (literly) breed of car nut.
All one has to do is watch Barrett-Jackson and one can see the difference in the 10 years I have been watching it. 10 years ago lots of older classics, now allmost all of the cars are muscle cars of the 50-60's.
To bad cause I think ours are the best of the bunch.
Tom

It happens every Winter. It's pretty tough to sell an mg td to a guy who has spent the past 2 months shoveling snow form his driveway. Come Spring the prices will begin to rise again.
Steve Simmons

At the moment, the recession may have something to do with it. Economy is not exactly booming in our area anyway. George
George Butz

In my limited experience selling MGs in general, interest starts to drop off in late Fall and starts picking up again in mid-February. It may be different in the American SW. I've heard that a factor with older cars, including our T series cars, is drivability in modern traffic. Of course we know better, but perhaps a lot of prospective buyers don't.

One argument we hear all the time is that people collect cars reminiscent of their youth, and since modern collectors can't remember our cars, they aren't interested. Personally, I never could relate to this. I was born in 1939, but I covet lots of cars built long before I was born. If I found a 1903 curved dash Olds or a Stutz Bearcat in a barn tomorrow, I'd restore it with the same enthusiasm that goes into my MGs.

I find the insane upward spiral of Austin Healey prices difficult to understand. I'm not knocking the cars, but what fun can you have in a Healey that makes it worth two or three times the price of a contemporary MG or even a Triumph? Of course, if I had a Healey, I'd be so happy I'd sell it and by a TA Tickford (built before I was born, BTW).

Another factor does occur to me. For those of us with shoe sizes over 10, egress is a bit difficult, but now with obesity rates going through the roof, maybe there are fewer and fewer collectors who can fit in these cars.

FWIW,
Allen
Allen Bachelder

It will be interesting to see what effect President Bush's edict about strict consumption and environmental standards for 2020, will be.

Don't be surprised if gas-guzzlers are (almost) ruled into extinction, and we just may be sitting in a good position with 4 cylinder cars - albeit - polluting (for which SUs are notorious!). And it wouldn't surprise me if all cars over 10 yrs old, aren't required to fit cat. converters, air pumps, etc.

If anything, in the long haul, our cars should retain value and perhaps increase, because the cost of operating a gas-guzzler, will eventually become prohibitive, even for the wealthy. In 2020, it will be a problem for my grandchildren, who will inherit my TF and my Alfa Giuletta.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.

PS:- I’m appalled at the monstrous gas-guzzlers that continue to be shown in Detroit this week. Don't people understand that we can't continue to drive these spewing behemoths any longer? Europe (including the UK) is doing its part. Why can't we?
Gordon A. Clark

Gord, guzzlers yes, but the 'Vette ZR1 and the Nissan GT-R are pretty awesome- they will be low volume niche cars. Rode to a meeting last nite in the new Mercedes SUV with the super-high tech diesel, and I truly had no clue it was a diesel until the owner told me. Incredibly quiet, clean burning, no smell inside or out. Turned about 1700 RPM at 60MPH. Hugely more efficient than anything gasoline. Not intending to be political at all here, but whatever Bush edicts won't matter in a few months anyway! George
George Butz

There are a whole bunch of factors, many of them already mentioned, especially seasonal fluctuations. But another possible cause is with the prices having gone up recently (and new cranks available), people are digging out old cars in fields and barns and selling them. There were a LOT of TD's made, and most of them came to the USA. Prices seem to be much higher in the UK. I think that they are now starting to overcome the reputation for weak engines, with new stronger crankshafts that are balanced.

MGTDs without the MGA (4.31) differential conversion is not able to keep up with modern highway speeds. But now that the value is up, many people like myself are willing to make the conversion. This, or a 5-speed tranny, will make these cars more popular as an alternative to the more expensive big Healeys, although they really were a muscle car, by British standards, and may attract a different sort of buyer.

I have had 2 Austin Healey 3000's, and didn't want to sell the last one I had (wife made me). There were relatively few made, and they are great cars, although they are very heavy in the front and light in the back, leading to loss of rear end traction and spinning out. They ALL had overdrive, and the entire drive train is very solid, robust and trouble-free. This combined with their beautiful body design has made them very desirable.

People are starting to restore MGAs, which look a lot like the big Healeys, which are plentiful, but I fear may suffer the same reputation for engine problems.
Larry Ayres

I'm also wondering when the collector car market will suffer another "adjustment" like it did circa 1990. Certainly, as George notes, the current economy cannot be helping.

The next few months might be a very good time to buy some cars.

Try explaining that to our wives!

Allen
Allen Bachelder

Larry,
Unfortunately, there IS a better market for an Austin-Healey 3000 than there is for a used wife...
David "tell her I said it" Lieb
David Lieb

Here is my Australian perspective:
A concourse TF is now worth nearly $40,000 AUS. A TF 'Driver' is worth maybe $25,000 AUS. These prices have hardly changed since the boom in the late 1980's! They have virtually flatlined for the past 20 years, but because of the gradually eroding effects of our mild inflation they are effectively quite cheap today and you would have to be mad imho to undertake the restoration of a basket case.
I think safety and comfort are becoming bigger factors for people choosing a weekend toy to drive around in, and this is where our cars are starting to loose out.

Cheers,
Matthew.
Matthew Magilton

My take on values:

I think Matthew has a point, except for the 'Mad to undertake restoration of a basket case'... but he did say imho... so I can't disagree to vociferously.

Anyway, my restoration:
http://www.braunprinting.com/mgtd15470/album/

I did start with a fairly complete car which I drove for 20 plus years before reducing it to the said basket case condition. I knew that I would be restoring every component, and for example, it is almost as expensive to rebuild a weak engine as it is to rebuild a frozen one. I had an OK interior, but I knew I was going to replace it, etc. So, except for the incredible delay on waiting for my tub, I have reduced an US$8,000 running car to a US$28,000 pile of parts, which I may be able to get US$8,000 for piecing them out.

But, when the car (with much more work and expertise) is reassembled in what seems to be the distant future, I expect to have the really decent driver I always wanted. It will then be worth approximately US$20,000. But it has been a lot of fun, I've met a bunch of great people, and I didn't chase a little white ball around a golf course, or simply bore holes in the sky with an airplane. I guess I'm saying that over four years time, it will be a pretty good investment in fun.

warm regards (especially to Matthew)
dave

PS: I'm another guy who's car is older than he is. That number used to be 25% older, but I'm catching up.
Dave Braun

What one has to do is come up with some gimmick such as "The Last TF", or the one that "Mickey Rooney ( or someone famous)" owned, or the only one produced in Champagne Pink, with a supercharger. The you take it to the Barret-Jackson auction, hire a pro advertising/ marketing firm, polish the heck it of it, and sell it for $85,000.


D C Congleton

Dave,

So far, I've only been through the abridged version, but what a fantastic photographic essay! What a boon for future restorers!

And it's the pleasure of results like these that drives us onward, isn't it. It ain't the money. Unless D C has a really good new idea there...

Cheers,
Allen
...And when cars get older than I am, they're REALLY old!
Allen Bachelder

Frankly Scarlet...........

While I may be alone in the woods, I have NEVER allowed the commercial value of any of my vintage cars, [proposed or anticipated] at the end of what ever time they spend in my care,(stored, raced, fixed up for commuting, etc.) to dictate what I bring into the herd. They are there[regardless of their condition] simply because they are pleasing to the eye, or deserve rescue from what ever dire straights they have been consigned. (I tend to bottom feed and look for lost car/souls with potential) As an adoptee, I guess it is inherent. At the end of my stewardship, I hope they are better for it, or in the hands of someone who will lavish the time/sweat equity or filthy lucre required to resurect them. More than once, I have handed that needed bit to the young couple with their first beastie gratis, rather than sell it at an obscene markup from what I paid 30 years ago, to the non-MOPAR 'cudas' looking for the next Ponderesk auction.

Hopefully, we have kids who will take over the ramparts. In the mean time just enjoy them, as our collective lives are getting shorter.

Happy New Year
Safety Fast
Paul
Paul Gaynor

Hear, Hear, Paul. My sentimentes entirely. Marvin
Marvin Stuart

I don't give a hoot what my cars are worth because I didn't buy them wit the intention of ever selling. but I can certainly understand why someone would be concerned with market fluctuations and predictions if they plan to restore cars as a hobby, selling each one to fund the next. I'm a driver before mechanic but some people prefer the opposite and that's fine. In fact it's preferred because I can usually buy an M.G. already restored for far less money than it would take to do it myself... and then I don't have to do it myself! I'd rather drive a car for ten years than restore it for the same amount of time. But, I digress. ;)
Steve Simmons

Paul,
Very well said !!!

Marve,
I think you're going to need a bigger garage !!

SPW
Steve Wincze

Paul,

I too am a bottom feeder - at the far end of the collector-car food chain. Values of my cars are of little concern because they only come into play when you sell them - which is a concept ("Sell"? What does that mean - "sell"?) quite foreign to me. On occasion I have sold a car to finance another, but I try to avoid it.

But a basket-case TD is not really at the bottom. But I would say this dear favorite among my basketcases is what the bottom feeders spit out. Incidentally, this is a pretty flattering picture of the poor old girl.

Allen
Allen Bachelder

To all:

Great discussion!

Cars that we either drove, admired or coveted as teens are what we desire in our middle and later years, hence the current popularity of muscle cars, and the corresponding pricing dip and/or stagnation of brass era roadsters, prewar flivvers, broughams, sedans, convertibles and limos, early postwar British sports cars, et al. This is a simplistic explanation and certainly has exceptions (was there EVER a cuter car than an MG TD?). This is not my original thinking, of course, just a summation of brighter minds than mine.

On a personal note, the time and money that I spent on the frame up restoration of my 1953 MG TD, Pugsley, in the early 1970s was at least the equivalent of a JD degree, minus the bleeding knuckles and lower back pain.

I then, in the late 1980s, compounded my foolishness by doing it again, correcting my many errors, and adding many mods ("Pugsley", the TSO ad my heirs will someday write, "a purist's worst nightmare..."), as I threw good time and good money after the bad.

A TD, to me, was and is the coolest car one could own and drive, dollars be damned. But I am now 59, younger auto enthusiasts disagree, and they determine current pricing.

Cliff

p.s. I also own a vintage Vespa motorscooter... same mentality (or not) at play.



C A Schnell

As far as pollution goes, my 53 TD gets about 33 MPG and burns no oil. How much pollution can it be making?
I feel that comparied to some new SUV's that only get 10 MPG I am doing the world a favor.
However I do also have a motorhome that only gets 10 MPG.
I justify that with some trick math. I say my motorhome gets as good milage as a Prius!
A Prius gets about 40 MPG if you have the air on or the heat and it only weighs about one ton.
My RV gets 10 MPG and weights 5 tons.
So if you look at miles per gallon per ton of mass moved ,,,the RV gets the same or better mileage as the Prius.
Alan

Alan

I love that kind of thinking. During the gas crisis of 74, I had a volvo with 4 cylinder and 4 speed with OD. When they changed the speed limit to 55, my fuel economy actually dropped. Cant say why, but the car got better fuel milage at 65.
Bruce-C

Nobody should be driving a passenger vehicle that weighs 5 tons - wasteful, and excessive and probably unnecessary.

To schlep stuff and people around, I have a Dodge Caravan with yes - a 5-speed manual transmission (with a clutch) that gets abt. 28 mpg.

Gord Clark
Rockburn, Qué.
Gordon A. Clark

Interesting discussion. From a Norwegian point of view, I would say that the market prices for mainstream classic cars are driven mainly by three factors: Image, usability and the possibilities for taking part in club runs and social events with the car. Not sure about the percentage for each, but the car must be reasonably comfortable to use on modern roads. If not, there is only a very small market for it. And of course cars like the big Healey is very strong on both image and usability.

The majority of classic sports car owners here are people aged 60+ that can now afford to make their youth dream come true and be part of a community, but do not want to get really involved. The number of old sports car nuts like us, that are actually rebuilding and working on our cars and are emotionally attached to them, is so low that we are not influencing the market much.

Personally, I believe prices on most kinds of MGs will drop markedly in a few years time. I think this is already happening with MGBs? There are so many cars around, and there will be fewer buyers. And the older MG models like the T-types are gradually losing out on usability.

Tore
Tore

I find the MGB to be gaining value steadily. However I don't expect the T-Series cars to hold their value any better than old Fords such as Model T and model A. They used to be unobtainable but now you can buy a fleet of them for the cost of one perfect example 20 years ago. I'd say T-Series MGs still have another 20-25 years before they plummet. I hope I'm wrong because I'd hate to see the collectible status of them go away, in fear they would no longer be worth restoring.
Steve Simmons

Steve said:

"I hope I'm wrong because I'd hate to see the collectible status of them go away, in fear they would no longer be worth restoring."

Steve, my friend, they aren't worth restoring now, except as an area of enjoyment for the restorer. You can get upside down so quickly doing a T-type. As you said above, "I'm a driver before mechanic but some people prefer the opposite and that's fine. In fact it's preferred because I can usually buy an M.G. already restored for far less money than it would take to do it myself... and then I don't have to do it myself! I'd rather drive a car for ten years than restore it for the same amount of time." As you so correctly mentioned, selling a finished project to get going on the next is already problematic in our corner of the Old Car World.

But perhaps that's our place in the hobby. You would rather drive a car for ten years... most of us would! And those of us doing restorations want BOTH! LOL We create and preserve fun beautiful cars we can drive, enjoy, improve and if we desire, restore on your own without the they hyper refined skills some cars require, and without feeling like you're wearing out a piece of machinery which should be in a museum. Know one knows for certain what how each car was equipped so we have latitude in adding or subtracting features and equipment. We use our cars hard and continue to do so without fear of losing a major investment. And when we are done, we can hand them off to someone for the same purposes.

I'd say we are quite lucky our cars are not Jags or Healys, and that they are affordable. Luckily the enjoyment of restoring them is not upside down!

warm regards,
dave
Dave Braun

This thread was discussed between 16/01/2008 and 02/02/2008

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